RE: Formula 2 Crash

"For Sweden" (rallybeetle) 08/31/2019 at 13:11 • Filed to: Safety, Formula 2, Dallara

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Today’s crash in Spa was an entirely foreseeable event. The result of the crash should be a damning condemnation of Dallara as a constructor.

Story here:

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I fear the powers that be in motorsport will wax poetically about brave young men in dangerous work instead of making cars that don’t kill drivers.

ihm96 > For Sweden 08/31/2019 at 13:33

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Any articles or references showing how it was a forseeable event? Not going against you, just curious to read and learn more

For Sweden > ihm96 08/31/2019 at 13:34

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A car at speed crashing into a disabled car is foreseeable.

ihm96 > For Sweden 08/31/2019 at 13:37

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How does that condemn Dallara? A car crashing at speed into a disabled car could happen to any constructor, so I’m not really seeing your point here

For Sweden > ihm96 08/31/2019 at 13:40

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Dallara builds the F2 cars

ihm96 > For Sweden 08/31/2019 at 13:47

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I still don’t see how that condemns them specifically. What makes it different from that situation in any other series where that could happen? Are you saying they built it faultily or aren’t as up to snuff as other open wheel series?

It seems like you’re just using a very simple line of logic with no real evidence or point to condemn Dallara because there was an accident. At a certain point you can only do so much to defy the physics and realities of crashing at high speed

For Sweden > ihm96 08/31/2019 at 13:54

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When drivers die in similar circumstances in cars built by other manufacturers, check in with me then.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > For Sweden 08/31/2019 at 13:57

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I would like to say here and now that I will ban anyone who posts videos of the crash.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > For Sweden 08/31/2019 at 14:11

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Where did you read about a disabled car? Everybody was at speed at the time of the crash. Alesi spun, was hit by Hubert, who was then hit by Correa. There was no disabled car, let alone some car disabled due to some intrinsic design flaw in the F2 design.

And if there was a disabled car on track it would be the FIA’s fault for not throwing yellow flags to earn the other drivers.

Cash Rewards > For Sweden 08/31/2019 at 14:14

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Im struggling to follow you here, too. It wasn't a mechanical failure, it was cought up in another car's spin, hit a barrier, came to a stop. Not the car's fault. Unless you're saying from a safety perspective, dallara needs to build for it taking a full speed hit while disabled, as that is potentially foreseeable?

For Sweden > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 08/31/2019 at 14:15

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I’ m counting the spun car as a disabled car.

For Sweden > Cash Rewards 08/31/2019 at 14:16

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I did not say it was a mechanical failure. It was a structural design failure.

And your second point is exactly what I am saying.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > For Sweden 08/31/2019 at 14:16

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How the fuck is a driver spinning Dallara’s fault? The spun car wasn’t even stopped for fucks sake.

For Sweden > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 08/31/2019 at 14:23

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I did not say it was

Cash Rewards > For Sweden 08/31/2019 at 14:24

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Fair enough. I wonder if that's possible, or if that's a known problem that's unavoidable. Speed, weight, area of impact...that might be an unsolvable equation with a human inside. There aren't a lot of these types of accidents that have good endings.

Cash Rewards > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 08/31/2019 at 14:53

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I thought I read he came to rest on track after striking the wall. Guardian, I think?

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Cash Rewards 08/31/2019 at 15:27

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They came to rest on the track surface after the incident finished. The videos didn’t show the spin but the 3 cars piled into the wall as one mass.

Cash Rewards > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 08/31/2019 at 15:31

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Ah. The reading I had was spin, wall, rest, impact

Cash Rewards > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 08/31/2019 at 15:37

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And if that’s the case, I’m coming over to for Sweden’s argument. If it wasn’t a full speed car in to a stopped car, then we ought to be able to build a crash structure that’s survivable.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Cash Rewards 08/31/2019 at 15:45

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Studying the video again Alesi who spun first wasn’t actually involved in the major impact, he actually made it all the way to the end of the straight before stopping. The video doesn’t show what happens. You see Alesi get a wiggle at the top of Radillon and then by the time the camra man pans over to try to catch what is happening you just see Hubert and Correa hitting the wall together.

Cash Rewards > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 08/31/2019 at 15:51

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Yeah, I knew the person who spun wasn't caught up in the impact

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Cash Rewards 08/31/2019 at 15:52

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There’s only so much modern technology can do. The human body isn’t designed to survive  170+ mph crashes. A single car impact should be survivable. This was two cars hitting the wall tangled together. That doubles the energy of the impact and introduces a shitload of variables into the equation.

Cash Rewards > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 08/31/2019 at 16:05

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Yeah, I hear you. But I also remember Hamilton’s crash a few years ago where he climbed out o f a crushed cube of carbon and metal and walked away. 

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Cash Rewards 08/31/2019 at 16:16

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I’m not recalling the accident you are referring to.

Modern motorsport safety has reached a place where it can protect from most incidents however there are still the edge cases that may happen once a generation that find gaps in that protection. The FIA safety standards that the Dallara F2 chassis is designed and tested to meet are the strictest in the world and today’s incident sadly exceeded those capabilities.

Cash Rewards > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 08/31/2019 at 16:22

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Alonso, my mistake. Australia 2015

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Cash Rewards 08/31/2019 at 16:46

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Rolls look spectacular but they are actually a rather slow and gradual dissipation of energy. When designing for safety your first priorities are keeping the space around the driver from collapsing and disipating the energy over as much time.as you possibly can. The worst accidents are the ones where you hit the wall and stop immediately.

ihm96 > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 08/31/2019 at 17:08

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Woah let’s not be reasonable here, let’s just get the pitchforks out. It’s the manufacturers fault you can’t survive getting t boned into a wall when one car is flat out and one is almost stationary and just smacked a wall.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > ihm96 08/31/2019 at 17:45

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I think you are replying to the wrong person because you are saying the same thing I have been.

ihm96 > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 08/31/2019 at 18:06

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I was just being sarcastic haha, doesn’t convey easily over the internet. 

Cash Rewards > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 08/31/2019 at 19:24

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You're absolutely right about rolling getting rid of energy, but he still recorded 46g. I have a feeling this incident is about cabin intrusion?

ihm96 > For Sweden 08/31/2019 at 21:20

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Where else has there been a crash like this recently? What open wheeled car is going to allow you to survive two impacts with a wall followed by being speared by a car coming full speed up the hill at a ridiculous speed?

For Sweden > ihm96 08/31/2019 at 21:39

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It does not need to be frequent to be foreseeable

ihm96 > For Sweden 09/05/2019 at 14:49

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https://jalopnik.com/understanding-anthoine-huberts-fatal-accident-1837899988

For Sweden > ihm96 09/05/2019 at 14:53

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“ As the video points out, race cars aren’t designed to handle impacts from multiple points in rapid succession.”

There’s your sign

ihm96 > For Sweden 09/05/2019 at 15:02

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That doesn’t condemn Dallara as a manufacturer. This could have happened with the F1 cars or other Formula constructors. How do you expect them to be able to make a safety cell that can survive several impacts? You think they wouldn’t if they could?

Your tone makes it sound as if they could easily have made a car safe enough and just decided not to for whatever reason, instead of just accepting that as safe as motorsport has gotten theres always going to be risk. Everyone just thinks you can rocket around at 200 mph and crash and be fine, and its amazing we mostly can, but at the end of the day you still might not make it back

For Sweden > ihm96 09/05/2019 at 15:11

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Thea manufacturer followed a spec sheet from the customer. They could have done more, and they did not.